Curse

viper008 · Apr 22, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Instead of the jumping all over the guy for hating the DP, MANY of You are missing the OP point and I do agree with him/her. That it's fusterating as hell for spending so much and effort trying to clear a zone. Only to get returnd to out post when all party members reach 60% DP even with hench in party is a bit too much. Hard M odecan still be as much of a chanllange to fight back frok 60% DP to no -%DP by not having these being done BACK TO OUT POST. What makes any of you so good and who made you god to judge anyone here if anyone isn't good enough for hard mode?

So get off the you're high horses

Clone · Apr 22, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I think its fair, as long as it just is just hardmode. However, I think its time that merchants should start stocking candy, clovers, or other similar items to reduce DP. I think it would be popular for a good number of people. They wouldn't have to be all that cheap, just available for situations like this. It also should be a good gold sink, and that should help Anet since they apparently want to change the way people are farming, even if all the details haven't been set in stone yet.

But thats a topic for another thread... At the very least, I think candy cane/clover vendors would be good all around.

Renegade26 · Apr 22, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper008

Instead of the jumping all over the guy for hating the DP, MANY of You are missing the OP point and I do agree with him/her. That it's fusterating as hell for spending so much and effort trying to clear a zone. Only to get returnd to out post when all party members reach 60% DP even with hench in party is a bit too much. Hard M odecan still be as much of a chanllange to fight back frok 60% DP to no -%DP by not having these being done BACK TO OUT POST. What makes any of you so good and who made you god to judge anyone here if anyone isn't good enough for hard mode?

So get off the you're high horses

I assume youre talking about me saying why you might get DP.

Ive gotten 12 vanquished areas so far, so I can do Hard Mode.

Ive also died in one area, being sent to an outpost afterwards of 2 hours of exploring.

When I went straight back to deal with the area again, I changed my builds, heroes and henchman, took some scrolls and dealt with the area so much better that I didnt need the extra scrolls I bought. DP tought me to improve, and not having experienced it, I would have cleared the area in a lesser state of ability. Improve from it and you get better. Whine in a forum doesnt help.

viper008 · Apr 22, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

I assume youre talking about me saying why you might get DP.

You assume wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

Ive gotten 12 vanquished areas so far, so I can do Hard Mode.

Well so can I and that's besides ths point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

Ive also died in one area, being sent to an outpost afterwards of 2 hours of exploring.

That's the whole point of this thread... DUH, Not all players like this regardless how good they are. Many do feel that it's a waste of time and effort to get sent back to outpost instead working our way back to NO DP thats a challange in its self.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

When I went straight back to deal with the area again, I changed my builds, heroes and henchman, took some scrolls and dealt with the area so much better that I didnt need the extra scrolls I bought.

DP tought me to improve, and not having experienced it, I would have cleared the area in a lesser state of ability.

Whats works for you my not work for everyone esle since not all player have equal abilties and it seems people forget that!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

Improve from it and you get better. Whine in a forum doesnt help.

I haven't whine one bit thanks, nice try, While others have whined and whined on this forum + others they have gotten results(got somewhere) from it.

Yes hard mode will make players better players to only those who stick with it but it's also not the point.

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Lol I almost had this this morning.

I cleared whole pongmei valley except a group of Afflicted with a ritualist boss.

After a party whipe, I had 58DP And couldn't risk another death.
Luckily, Europe would get favor after 1 win.

So I waited... and waited... and then finally, europe got favor! So I went to the Res Shrine, kneeled and had the Avatar of Dwayna remove my Death Penalty for the cost of all my cash.

In the end, it didn't really help, cause I just sent my heroes in to attack the monsters, while staying back myself... I killed the group and I got a nice refund of 400 gold and 700 experience :P

The lesson to learn from this story: Take cash in factions areas, and you can remove your DP from res shrines if your region has favor

(75 gold for every 2% morale boost)

Seef II · Apr 22, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I had a few guys on 55% last night trying to kill the undead necro boss in The Sulfurous Wastes. Do the shrines not res people at 60% like in PvP?

(Tip for that boss: park heroes in wurms at the edge of the rough terrain, pull the boss out within range of them. DP doesn't matter a whole lot on the map since it's 90% wurmable.)

StormLord · Apr 22, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper008

Whats works for you my not work for everyone esle since not all player have equal abilties and it seems people forget that!!!!!

It's HARD mode. It's supposed to be a real challenge. People with lesser abilities should either improve, or stick to normal mode.

Renegade26 · Apr 22, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

At viper008, making Hard Mode easier by removing the penalty of 60% DP is removing part of what makes Hard mode Hard. You cant just run in and die over and over taking the enemies with you, thats lame yet effective, and proves nothing.

And at "nice try", yes you did whine. You whined that you should be able to continue at even full party wiped more than 4 times, and you whined that it is too much to be sent back in failure. Anet isnt going to change this, because some people complain about it; it is a distinguishing and important part of Hard Mode and will stay.

If you cant clear an area without dieing then youre not good enough for the reward. Its kind of Anet to give you 4 chances that make themselves back up when you kill things.

Sentience · Apr 22, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Used to be that the first time you wiped you went straight back to town. GG no re. That said, you should have read the update notes and it would have been wise of you to bring some sort of DP removal item.

Can't feel sorry for you.

arcanemacabre · Apr 22, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper008

Instead of the jumping all over the guy for hating the DP, MANY of You are missing the OP point and I do agree with him/her. That it's fusterating as hell for spending so much and effort trying to clear a zone. Only to get returnd to out post when all party members reach 60% DP even with hench in party is a bit too much. Hard M odecan still be as much of a chanllange to fight back frok 60% DP to no -%DP by not having these being done BACK TO OUT POST. What makes any of you so good and who made you god to judge anyone here if anyone isn't good enough for hard mode?

So get off the you're high horses

First of all, I adressed the OP's point by saying that whenever I got in that kind of situation (whole party having 60dp), I usually /resign. This means, in case you missed my point, that I actually agree with the function of essentially losing in an explorable (as opposed to losing in a mission because everyone's dead - another mechanic you probably find "unfair") because your team can no longer function properly at 60dp. If you hit that high of DP across the board, something is wrong with your party, be it the builds, the players, whatever, and it needs to be re-evaluated for that area.

Yeah, having all your progress reset because of a series of f***-ups does suck, but then again, if you weren't punished for f***-ups, where would the challenge be? What, you want ice cream when you win and candy when you lose, too?

Haggard · Apr 22, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

It's presumably to encourage you to restart with a new build/build changes rather than spending four hours clearing by attrition. It also encourages you to party up with people, since then you're less likely to fail.

Tempy · Apr 22, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Its not like we weren't told of it before heading out...so COMMON SENSE (yes I know most don't know what that is anymore) would mean you watch it carefully. Hard Mode is pretty straightforward.

Question...why if you were at that much DP was your entire team down in the main kill zone??? Namely, your monk(s)? Spread out a bit and damage negates a bit.

If you know your party is at that crucial moment and you are one of 2 standing still but you are both taking damage...RUN, and for pete's sake SPLIT UP, following the person ahead of you just makes sure that the enemies keep them on the kill radar too.

Once again...EVERYONE on a team should have some form of rez!!!! Don't be the last one standing and say "I don't have it"

Sorry to hear that you (OP) were that close to finishing an area. I lost the Sulfurous Wastes that way too...live and learn I guess.

Series · Apr 22, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil_carter

So you quit right after you left pre-searing?

I think that is one of the reasons for the increased xp in Hard Mode, to wear off the DP quicker.

That is a great theory! It makes sense too, as the vanquish fights are so long that you are more than likely able to get a level up.

Also, this seems to be one of those "hard mode is too hard" topics. Some people have good points for ways to adjust hard mode, others are just complaining because it's too difficult. Like someone else said, you shouldn't earn vanquisher through attrition- if you reach 60 DP, you could probably keep throwing yourself at the mobs, killing them slowly, until you get em all dead. Where's the skill in that? Heck, seeing how you would possibly be unable to kill anything in that state, be happy that they gave you a free trip to the nearest outpost :-D

countesscorpula · Apr 22, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

The DP issue isn't sooooo much of a problem in HM. Mostly because you can clear your DP so much faster if you successfully clear regular HM baddies. If you feel you might get hit bad by a boss, be sure to leave a few other groups on the map to clear away your dp before you try again.

On lockpicks: 1500g for something that has less than a 20% chance of surviving is a bit harsh. Especially when some of these chests have been known to drop some cheesey grapes that no one has any use for (only grape rune with anything is vigor, and your likely to get Major inspiration or some other Att major well before). That means, in order to recoup funds spent on lock-picks, when you actually do get something worth selling, it's going to have to sell for a MINIMUM of 15k. But with the new farming code in place, what average player can afford to pay 15k for an item?

The high cost and fragility (best odds give 41% chance of survival, and that's with max in both lucky and TH.) of lockpicks is going to go a long way towards making the economy take a nose dive. If i have to charge 15, or even 7.5k for an item that Joe player can't afford by running a simple farm, you KNOW Joe is giong to cash in on some e-bay gold to get what he can't get otherwise. THe bots might be making less now than before, but that just means e-bay gold is going to go from $2.50/100plat to $4/100plat. If Joe average has a choice between MONTHS of farming under the new conditions, or dropping $4, I think he'll save himself the grief and pay the $4. But, if lockpicks were more sturdy (IE had a better percentage of surviving - I've only had one not break once) then chest hunters wouldn't be obliged to sell their finds for such high costs in order to recoup lockpick losses. As it is, the economy has become a mirror of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." Because the only people who stand a reasonable chance(if you call 41% reasonable) of being able to re-use pick are the people who've already spent Hundreds of THOUSANDS on festival tickets and high-end keys from the past. Anyone else who buys a lock pick is pretty much guarunteed it will break = must charge more for what they find. bah, probably not even the right place for this rant.

TGgold · Apr 22, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Now that I think of it, I'm really starting to see a bigger market for exp scrolls. I noticed you get a ton of exp, and exp scrolls would just wipe that DP away.

Sure they're not instant gratitude like the canes and clovers, but hey, it helps.

And you can buy them from NPCs.

floppinghog · Apr 22, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormLord

It's HARD mode. It's supposed to be a real challenge. People with lesser abilities should either improve, or stick to normal mode.

Quoted for truth.

If, for example, you can't climb the fruit tree yourself (to get the fruit), get someone to do it for you (play normal mode). If your gonna figure out a new way to win (like when playing hard mode) such as being more intelligent, and learning from your errors; then you should SHAKE that tree and knock down some fruit like a pro does.

This is one of those times where people complain about the facts of life, (HARD mode is "hard for me") well seriously, NO shyt, its called HARD mode, because its hard! Once again, if you can't beat HARD MODE, then play NORMAL mode and suck it up. Life doesn't revolve around your expectations.

viper008 · Apr 22, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormLord

It's HARD mode. It's supposed to be a real challenge. People with lesser abilities should either improve, or stick to normal mode.

Because some people don't like this it DOESN'T mean people suck and should stick to Normal mode. The game still can be a challeng without it, guess you didn't read my post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

At viper008, making Hard Mode easier by removing the penalty of 60% DP is removing part of what makes Hard mode Hard. You cant just run in and die over and over taking the enemies with you, thats lame yet effective, and proves nothing.

And at "nice try", yes you did whine. You whined that you should be able to continue at even full party wiped more than 4 times, and you whined that it is too much to be sent back in failure. Anet isnt going to change this, because some people complain about it; it is a distinguishing and important part of Hard Mode and will stay.

If you cant clear an area without dieing then youre not good enough for the reward. Its kind of Anet to give you 4 chances that make themselves back up when you kill things.

No I'm not whinging, And you don't know how I play the game so you or anyone can't pass any kind of judgement other wise. Who are you to say it will stay? You are Not Anets spoke person.

You can disagree and thats fine but NONE of you can judge someone playing abilties FROM A FORUM POST nor you should try and bash them. This a forum to dissuss things but I get told we are "whining" oh please get a grip.

HawkofStorms · Apr 22, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

It can be frustrating trying to clear an area for 2 hours and then failing right at the end (I was 9 foes away from clearing one area before my heros just decided to stop doing anything

). But, no complaints here. It is "hard mode" after all. It should be tough.

zerulus · Apr 22, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

I hate DP its RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin useless.Its no fun to get wasted and have even less chance to continiue,mind as well uninstall the damn game.

What you would propose? No repercussions for deaths at all? That would only encourage stupidity.

Alex the Great · Apr 22, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

I hate DP its RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin useless.Its no fun to get wasted and have even less chance to continiue,mind as well uninstall the damn game.

YA IF YOU SUCK YOU SHOULDN'T LOSE /sarcasm

thats life